Obama…
I don’t generally get too involved, especially here on the blog, in political discussions. I’ve especially avoided them this year because I’ve been a secret supporter of Barack Obama. “Secret” because most people I know and regularly interact with believe he’s (a) the antichrist, (b) a terrorist plant, or (c) generally evil because he’s a Democrat.
I’ve supported him, though, because I’m more of a Democrat myself these days, and I agree with a lot of what he’s said. I read two articles this week, however, that are really making me pause in that support.
I’d rather not get into my personal opinion on abortion here, because it’s a complicated issue and I feel like complicated issues are best discussed in person over several hours rather than in short, pithy sentences that can be very easily misunderstood. But what’s not complicated is that I value people. And “people” to me – at the very least – includes any living thing outside the womb. It’s sad that I can’t say for sure if Obama agrees with that position.
So, what’s a girl to do? More than anything, I find myself leaning toward the camp that asks, “Does all of this politics stuff really matter?” Especially to Christians? Our call, our mission as individuals and as the Church doesn’t change, no matter what the political landscape looks like. I know my American value system says the right to vote comes with a responsibility to vote. I just don’t know if – given all of the information – my Christian value system supports that. Or has anything to do with it at all.
Peace. Out.
9 Comments »
Leave a comment
-
Recent Comments
Shelley on Quality (of life) vs. Quantity… Tiffany on Quality (of life) vs. Quantity… Hubert24601 on Rest in Peace, Michael Va… michellecwheeler on Obama… West Finley on Mixed bag…
-
Archives
- August 2009 (1)
- May 2009 (1)
- April 2009 (2)
- February 2009 (1)
- November 2008 (2)
- October 2008 (9)
- September 2008 (6)
- May 2008 (3)
- April 2008 (7)
- March 2008 (5)
- February 2008 (4)
- January 2008 (11)
-
Categories
-
RSS
Entries RSS
Comments RSS
Michelle,
Like you, I steer away from the abortion debate. Although I’m pro-choice, I respect your well-thought-out views and do not seek to convince you to change your mind on this subject. I only want to clarify some things about the “partial birth” amendment that Obama opposed.
The Supreme Court echoed Obama’s stance, and this is hardly a liberal court. They ruled against it because there was no exception that allowed for the health of the mother, and there is a great deal of concern that this act was worded vaguely with the intent of making all abortions illegal. Google the amendment; it’s horribly vague and reaches too far. Even some who agreed with the core of the proposal opposed it on the grounds that it was formulated so weakly (and I would argue, worded very deviously).
Obama has focused more attention on preventing abortion than promoting it. He advocates for age-appropriate sex education (young children would learn how to protect themselves from predators, teenagers would learn about STDs, pregnancy and avoiding both through abstinence or contraceptives). Obama has also stressed that he would seek middle ground as president on this issue. Even though you and I disagree about some things, I’m sure we have many ideas in common: perhaps, that abortions should be far fewer than they are now, that birth control should be affordable and available. In 2008, some health insurers still cover Viagra and not the pill! Late-term abortions account for a fraction of a single percent of all abortions, so extreme cases are dividing people who have so many things to agree on.
I appreciate your view that being pro-life means protecting anyone living outside of the womb. To me, Obama will protect lives with his healthcare initiatives (under McCain, sick people with “pre-existing conditions” would still be excluded from commercial healthcare providers and lack the medical attention they need and deserve) and Obama would save lives by pulling our troops from Iraq. Many lives are at stake in this election, and I fear that an issue like the “partial birth abortion” debate are a distraction from ones that will affect far more numerous lives.
Again, I respect how thoughtfully you have approached your selection of a candidate in this election, and I wish you the best in finding one that best supports your values.
Jen,
Thanks so much for the input and insight. All of the things you listed about Obama are high on the list of why I’ve supported him thus far. And I understand that as a pro-choice party, Democrats are expected to oppose any proposed legislation that would seek to prohibit a woman’s right to choose what to do about an unwanted pregnancy.
In doing some additional research, I found these posts from a separate blog that explain a little more about the bill and Obama’s position. There’s also a transcript with Obama’s comments regarding the bill in the first link:
http://nugentslaw.wordpress.com/2008/09/21/obamas-statements-on-illinois-senate-bills-92-1093-92-1094-and-92-1095/
http://nugentslaw.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/obamas-specious-rationale-for-voting-against-the-illinois-born-alive-infants-protection-act/
http://nugentslaw.wordpress.com/2008/09/27/why-did-obama-vote-against-the-illinois-baipa/
As much as I like those things you listed about Obama, I just can’t personally get past this sentence:
“And if we’re placing a burden on the doctor that says you have to keep alive even a previable child as long as possible and give them as much medical attention as — as is necessary to try to keep that child alive, then we’re probably crossing the line in terms of unconstitutionality.”
Maybe I misunderstand the point of doctors, but I was under the impression that it was actually part of their job description to keep people – even very, very young people – alive and healthy for as long as possible.
———
On a slightly different note, I’m not just asking if I should “still vote Obama” with this post, but if there’s a real point to voting at all. I’m definitely NOT saying, “Oh, I don’t like Obama anymore, so I guess I’ll vote McCain.” For the record.
I understand your hesitancy. Your sources worry me, however, because they each have an agenda against the candidate and use some loaded terms. I found a neutral website with a good deal of information that seems to respect the complexity of the issue. And now, I promise to shut up about it. :)
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obama_and_infanticide.html
Excerpt:
The main bills under discussion, SB 1082 and the federal BAIPA, are both definition bills. They are not about what can and should be done to babies; they are about how one defines “baby” in the first place. Those who believe that human life begins at conception or soon after can argue that even a fetus with no chance of surviving outside the womb is an “infant.” We won’t try to settle that one.
What we can say is that many other people – perhaps most – think of “infanticide” as the killing of an infant that would otherwise live. And there are already laws in Illinois, which Obama has said he supports, that protect these children even when they are born as the result of an abortion. Illinois compiled statute 720 ILCS 510/6 states that physicians performing abortions when the fetus is viable must use the procedure most likely to preserve the fetus’ life; must be attended by another physician who can care for a born-alive infant; and must “exercise the same degree of professional skill, care and diligence to preserve the life and health of the child as would be required of a physician providing immediate medical care to a child born alive in the course of a pregnancy termination which was not an abortion.”
Howdy:
This is an interesting discussion. Might as well point out that I am voting McCain in November and am staying as far away from Obama as possible. I am conservative in belief, not republican, although I do not like all of McCain’s ideas and stances, where he needs to be strong he is, taxes, spending, and the war. On other things, like campaign finance reform and his immigration policies that he spawned with Kennedy, he has been appalling. That is just to set where I am coming from.
I am pro human life, and that life has no right to be ended. Life begins at conception, that is where God begins the work of His hands in shaping that life. On this whole thing of Obama and his life/choice policies and votes, I am at the other end of his standard.
Like Michelle stated earlier ‘”And if we’re placing a burden on the doctor that says you have to keep alive even a previable child as long as possible and give them as much medical attention as — as is necessary to try to keep that child alive, then we’re probably crossing the line in terms of unconstitutionality.”’
He said this statement, we cannot take the fact that he said it away. People can try to explain it away, and maybe it that were it then it could be, but he has done a lot more in the pro-choice, anti-life spectrum. The main thing I look at is SB99, here is the bill (http://is.gd/481E). The items that have a line through are the parts to be omitted from final draft and the underlined words are to be added. Now, when in a debate or in an ad McCain accused Obama of wanting to teach Kindergarteners (sp) about sex-education, and of course Obama said it was nonsense, he would not admit to something like that would he? If you look for the sponsors of this bill, you will see Obama as the chairperson who saw over the Health and Human Services of the Illinois Senate and the legislation they made (http://is.gd/482Q).
So lets look at the bill.
Each class or course in comprehensive sex
14 education offered in any of grades K 6 through 12 shall
15 include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted
16 infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread
17 of HIV AIDS.
If you look at the bill, the 6 is marked through and K is added. Why in he heck would you teach kinderkids about the prevention of STDs and HIV??
This is just one section of many.
I write all this just for people to read the facts and what is already out there. The campaign trail is full of BS, on both sides, so it is up to us to fact check them and keep them clean. I just do not understand how a man running for president can say these things, and not just about abortion. Obama also said he does not want his kids “punished with a baby”, in what flawed world is a baby a punishment? So, this is why i am in such disagreement with Obama, and his other socialistic desires.
Btw, McCain was asked when a baby became a human life at the Saddleback forum and he said immediatley “at conception” while Obama said he could not answer because it was “above my pay-grade”
Have an awesome day!
[...] friends blog and commented on the comments that she recieved. Here is the link to the blog post: http://michellecwheeler.wordpress.com/2008/10/14/obama/ Here is my response to a couple comments, please read and add comment ( on her site too). This [...]
Pingback by Obama and my thoughts « Living to Love… | October 15, 2008 |
Okay, so the point of my original post was not to get off into an abortion debate, but since we’re here, I’ll say a few more things on that particular subject. Feel free to continue to hash it out here, I’ll just likely abstain from that particular discussion:
- Jen, I’m very careful about sources and while I recognize that the blog I linked to is anti-Obama, I linked to it because it was one of the few places I could find such lengthy direct quotes. The link you included has some great information and I urge readers here to check it out.
- Daniel, thanks for your comments as well. I don’t have a problem including AGE-APPROPRIATE sex education at the elementary, and even the primary level. I have friends who teach first and second graders and their students come in singing lyrics to sexually overt songs word-for-word. My four-year-old nephew knows what a girlfriend is. You’re kidding yourself if you think that young kids aren’t already being educated about sex. I support Obama’s initiatives to take a little more responsibility for that education and start talking about the consequences of sexual behavior.
- Finally, here is a post by Jim Wallis from his blog “God’s Politics”: http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=3009. Very relevant to our discussion here and very hopeful in light of what both candidates said at the final presidential debate.
——————-
Again, my primary motivation in writing the original post here was to question how I – as a Christian – should be voting. Or whether I should be concerned with politics at all. I consider myself pro-life in the broadest sense of that term, which ultimately led me to support Barack Obama in the first place. Our pastor recently said it’s difficult to vote as a Christian because we have one party who seeks to value and protect life within the womb, and another party who seeks to value and protect life outside of it. I guess I’m just feeling particularly stuck between those two sides.
Looks like some other people are feeling the same way…
Head over to Facebook, look up Sierra McConnell from Emmanuel College/Pittsburgh, PA, and read her note “I’m not voting.” Really good discussion and points brought up on both sides.
Here’s the link if you’re already logged into Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=91300031#/note.php?note_id=31190436948
I’m not sure if you have to add Sierra in order to read it, but if you do, it’s worth it.
Interesting all indeed. I was going to link you to the Sojourners post, Michelle, but of course you beat me to it. As weird as it sounds for a pro-life supporter–both IN the womb and OUT of it–I’m not so sure the PRESIDENTIAL election is one in which abortion should be the key platform. Yes, I know that Presidents have a large hand in appointing Supreme Court judges, and they have veto power over the Congress, but an overturn of Roe v. Wade is a LONGSHOT at best. I’m not without hope, but I don’t think we will ever go back to a time when abortions are absolutely illegal. Both candidates said in the debate Wednesday that a (potential Supreme Court) judge’s abortion views are not the primary litmus test for that judge’s confirmation for Supreme Court. I would be more concerned to vote for a state candidate, since it is currently the states who determine more of the abortion issue. For President, I’m looking at economic policy, healthcare reform, and energy policy. Just my four cents worth.
Just to round out the discussion, here’s a really well-written editorial about Obama and the abortion issue:
http://www.citizenlink.org/content/A000008537.cfm